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  • 51

Boeing 787 build quality sorely lacking according to KLM

تم الإرسال
 
msterdam, Netherlands - Dutch flag carrier KLM has complained about the quality controls carried out at Boeing's Charleston plant where some Dreamliners are produced. KLM said the quality control at the Boeing's Charleston factory is far below the acceptable standards and the airline was concerned about the following deliveries, Dutch aviation news portal Luchtvaartnieuws.nl reports. KLM expressed its displeasure to Boeing after receiving its first 787-10 Dreamliner in June. (airlinerwatch.com) المزيد...

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KenWD0ELQ
Ken Mitchell 15
The USAF has continual complaints about the KC-46 tanker aircraft, also built by Boeing, for the same issue; foreign objects and trash left strewn about the aircraft.
MikeinKyiv
Mike Lynn 7
Don't get me started on the KC-46. This should have been an easy conversion of the 767 airframes to meet the Air Forces needs but it seems Boeing has had a huge learning curve especially on things like the refueling boom. There were issuess with the wiring, avionics as well as tool being left in finished planes - go figure! I see similar problems across the board with the MAX, 787 in Charleston and the Kc-46 with the company doing way too much outsourcing and failing to QC all their processes as well as each finished aircraft. They want to push another unit out the door for the good old bottom line. Most of all the loss of engineering expertise in both Renton and Everett in favor of the $9.00/hr. software jockeys in India is simply being Penny-Wise and Pound Foolish. Boeing is going to have to work very hard to recover from these missteps.
av8rdal
av8rdal 15
Boeing considers Quality Assurance to be a liability, inspectors on the floor have to deal with production management on a daily basis that are trying to meet a schedule. Managers performance is based on the schedule being meet and bonuses are based on meeting the schedule. I have seen know defective parts being installed just to meet a daily schedule.

The current FAA Policy of letting manufactures certify their own product, ie ODA, has let the fox in the hen house, this policy is also contributed to the 737 MAX debacle, should have never happened, Congress was a sleep again.
Flightdog
Roger Curtiss 4
and did you report these observations to anyone?
csosdny
Thomas King 30
Workers at the Everett plant have careers! Workers at the Charleston plant have jobs!
unclemark2
Mark Elliott 5
Unfortunately, this is VERY true. Watch the AlJazeera documentary on YouTube. On first watch, I was a little leery of AlJazeera but I checked into quite a few articles and, sadly, their story rings 100% true. I won't fly on 787's which is very inconvenient as I travel a great deal.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

unclemark2
Mark Elliott 3
They've got a hell of a lot better reputation than Fox. Check it out. Over 10 years ago they went global and decided there was an opening for an internationally based, European style operation. Don't take my word for it. Watch the YouTube, the link for which is posted in a bunch of other comments, It is really well documented with comparative views...
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 0
I really don't understand the downvotes people. It's just my opinion. I'm not asking anyone to agree with it.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 0
Don't worry, this is the echo chamber we call the internet, where confirmation bias beats up common sense and steals it's lunch money every day before school.

The scores are like golf by the way, so you're shooting par. I should be catching up with you here real soon.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON -7
What? You don't trust the al qaeda, isis, and muslim brotherhood supporting ruling family of Qatar to be honest with you? You know Qatar, the country where they stone people to death for being gay and hand out life sentences for writing poems they don't like, that Qatar.

Mark checked into quite a few articles, Roy says it's just as valid now as it was five years ago, and Ray says they are doing real investigative work. And whata-bout FOX news, huh? Huh!?!
Shaner777
Shane Hunt 13
Boeing standards have drastically gotten worse. It matters more to (Boeing) satisfy investors and overpaid CEO's than to satisfy customers.
DNAIR
Dick Nieuwendyk 25
It does not matter where the aircraft are built - it's up to Boeing to make sure work is checked, checked and double checked in every and all of their plants, before delivery. If workers are inadequate, replace them. KLM is right - safety has to be priority.
dba74m
dba74m 13
Replace "does" with "should". I totally agree with you though
jcwyer
John Wyer 19
Boeing QC has suffered a lot recently. Perhaps an upper management shake up is in order? These problems just can't be allowed to continue. Too much at stake.
airuphere
airuphere 18
For those who don’t read the article... wow just wow.

“Some examples about the lack of proper quality control are: loose seats, missing or incorrectly installed split pins, nuts that are not fully tightened, an unattached fuel pipe clamp and various missing parts.
KLM blames Boeing for poor quality control, late delivery and inadequate workforce at the factory.”
jimquinndallas
Jim Quinn 9
Yeah, this surely isn't good quality control. Disappointing to say the least and with the worst possible timing for Boeing with the Max issues as well.
richardorgill
Richard Orgill 2
Are you telling us people should actually open and read an article before commenting....say it ain't so.
airuphere
airuphere 0
lol you know it :)
mohenley
Mark Henley 9
As long as Boeing is run by MBAs instead of engineers, those problems will continue.
raykhughes
ray hughes 30
Have a watch of the Al Jezzera documentary (now 2 or 3 years old) about the South Carolina plant? where Drug dealing occurred on the premises, sloppy work was carried out..
Boeing plant workers said they would not take their families fly on a SC built 787. Boeing set up the Union free plant in order to stop delays over issues raised over quality controls,fair pay for a days work, etc., etc., Boeing received huge State concessions also for building in SC.. Something Stinks in the Boeing ideology. All hail the share price and the stakeholders. Screw people safety coming on first. The CEO, the Board, All need to go according to Ralph Nader - and I agree with him.
CorralesRoy
Roy Corrales 12
Yup still as valid as when aired in 2014... funny that many topics of that boeing culture, came to surface again and again :O
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpstd9os
speshulk99
john kilcher 7
I viewed similar vids on You Tube. Didn't believe at the time, but after the Max 8 debacle, perhaps there was/is some truth to the accusations 2 the Charleston facility.
flyingphil42
Phil Ford 6
I totally agree!
TheDogeof88
Chuck Lavazzi 5
Given that the Dutch (among others) are now complaining abut shoddy work from that same plant, it rather tends to support the Al Jazeera report. As a state-owned media company, it certainly deserves scrutiny, but in this case independent sources seem to be confirming them.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

speshulk99
john kilcher 3
Intelligent comments, please.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON -2
Of course this would be the only response to the most intelligent comment in this entire thread.

John, feel free to explain why Ron is wrong. If you aren't capable of doing that, by all means click the down arrow instead. Looks dumb, feels great.
speshulk99
john kilcher 0
A troll by any other name is still a troll.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON -1
When you have nothing to say, you say it.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

CorralesRoy
Roy Corrales 8
@JMARTINSON In fact if you see the docu, yo will see real people involved, the guys doing real investigative work, related to real issues. After seen so many lies for the past year, I think that piece of old info is still very valid.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON -3
I watched it when it came out. So how long do you think it will be very valid?
raykhughes
ray hughes 24
Does the name put you off?? I find their news reporting on point. With no left or right bias apparent.. Most of the major Media outlets these days have a heavy biased viewpoint.. one glaring example is FOX news.. With conservative Billionaire owners who have a hands on approach this is unsuprising.IMHO Al Jezzera carries investigative reports such as the Boeing exposure doco, that other new agencies would not. for fear of being sued or stifled by their owners.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 4
"Most of the major Media outlets these days have a heavy biased viewpoint" ... these days? As far back as I can remember, when there was only newspapers and radio, bias was prevalent. I remember my parents explaining to me as a child that the newspaper some people read leaned toward Republican and the competitive newspaper Democratic. The public has always been taxed with deciding what it believed.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON -7
Does the name put you off?

No, I don't even know what it means to be honest.
-------
I find their news reporting on point.

Why? Being not as bad as FOX really isn't saying much, even if it were true.
-------
With no left or right bias apparent..

Left/right isn't the problem, east/west is. They have had US based on-air talent leave the network citing exactly this as the reason.
-------
conservative Billionaire owners who have a hands on approach this is unsuprising...

Why would the billionaire ruling family of a middle eastern country be any different? They openly support multiple terrorist groups, but they don't influence the content of their own media company? That doesn't make any sense.
-------
Al Jezzera carries investigative reports such as the Boeing exposure doco, that other new agencies would not. for fear of being sued or stifled by their owners.

The new york times broke the story, not Al Jezeera.
timjohns
Tim Johns 18
I trust the news and facts and journalism from AJ 1000X more than much of the information coming out of the USA. Get outside the USA media bubble for a while and you will see how utterly broken and self-serving much of USA MSM really is.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
You're assuming things. I trust none of them.
dba74m
dba74m 10
They're very trustworthy actually, don't be pit off by the name.
airuphere
airuphere 3
Just an FYI the name means “the Island”. And it is names this because it is “the only indepentant news outlet in the Middle East” - their website. Head offices in Doha.
airuphere
airuphere 1
Doha being Qatar. One of the most progressive countries in the UAE.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON -1
Yep, and North Korea is one of the most progressive countries in Japan.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON -4
What makes them trustworthy? They can't be objective about the country they are based in, the family who rules it, or the religion they base that rule on. It's against the law. A negative report could mean going to jail.

Trustworthy?
sanukjim
James Wilson Jr 7
When a company that produces any thing that can effect the lives of people that use it ,there has to be a nature of trust in that company.For many years Boeing had that trust with them being heads and shoulders above the rest..Then when in the race for more efficient ,money saving aircraft was in demand and other aircraft manufacturers moving forward with their product and the share holders of Boeing demanding that their dividends not to be lowered,Boeing needed /wanted to save money in production.They laid off Senior engineers in Seattle and started to using cheaper engineers in India then they moved some productions out of Washington State where experience aircraft personnel worked to a cheaper area where they hired many non experience along with some experience aircraft workers and their Quality Control plummeted.
mrdot
LW P 7
Boeing sounds like malaise era General Motors.
MIKESWICK
MIKE SWICK 12
Anything to save a buck and get those bonuses
patpylot
patrick baker 6
south carolina boeing employees are proud anti-union , happy to work for less money, and seem to be sloppy on detail and fit and finish. Will it take a 787 crash, based on bad build, to establish that fact? Hard to show pride in work when one works too fast at something not entirely familiar with.
cyberjet
cyberjet 6
Bill Boeing is turning over in his grave seeing what has been done to the excellent organization he built. The senior “managers” from McD D who run the show now have only one concern - share value. It shows in the product and the people left behind.
Moviela
Ric Wernicke 31
Every vehicle manufacturer who has opened a plant in the Southeast to save on labor costs has discovered that if you pretend to pay them, they pretend to work.
conx
charlie lange 12
Exactly right. You get what you pay for.
dba74m
dba74m 13
Makes me wonder how the airbus quality in mobile Alabama will differ from the European-built
M20ExecDriver
M20ExecDriver 12
Going to cut to the chase here. There are little to no skilled workers in the South.
I'm talking machinists, tool and die makers and other skilled crafts. I had a friend who worked in a Delco parts plant in Mississippi and it took them three years to replace a machinist. The non union plants don't have the apprenticeship programs that the northern plants have and those chickens are coming home to roost.Boeing isn't the same entity suffering these ills, the foreign car transplants have the same problems and issues. Takata air bag anyone?
CorralesRoy
Roy Corrales 5
I will take a long haul with them in 2 months... inbound leg PTY-CDG with Airfrance and return AMS-SJO by KLM. Instead of feeling enthusiastic about my first dreamliner ride, I feel this will be more like a survival challenge. It's sad to see how quality standards and safety is poorly managed today by Boeing.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 0
So what do you figure your chances are of making it back?
CorralesRoy
Roy Corrales 2
Hope high numbers :o still many thing to do for the future years lol
vincent1878
Jeff Vincent 9
And how Boeing and the SC politicians bragged about leaving the Machinists union behind in Seattle. $$$ first.
augerin
Dave Mathes 2
...wow, thought this was about Boeing QC issues, not infantile bantering about Al-J...
tomreiter8
Tom Reiter 2
Boeing better get their head out of you know where on this, they have zero grace left, if something bad happens from this plant its really seriously over for boeing commercial.
ed7778
Dennis Stockton 2
If this is true, there is no alternative but to raise the salaries and benefits of the managers of the plants.
unclemark2
Mark Elliott 1
Unfortunately, this is VERY true. Watch the AlJazeera documentary on YouTube. On first watch, I was a little leery of AlJazeera but I checked into quite a few articles and, sadly, their story rings 100% true. I won't fly on 787's which is very inconvenient as I travel a great deal.
ed7778
Dennis Stockton 1
chotiwala
Austin Deppe 2
Who invited A.net users to this comment feed? Such hostility toward other commenters!
Racinmoose
Kevin Culver 3
I can’t imagine how hard it would be to be a supervisor at that location. I’m sure there is no one standing behind you when accountability standards are not met.
BayAreaLen
Len Peixoto 3
Boeing is being slammed in the media following the MAX issue, so bad, that it's not even about the lives lost or even the fix anymore. It's MSM narrative execution for reasons none of us know for sure. A software issue is a coder/programmer on the ground who doesn't care about aviation as we do, and sadly that allowed a couple of fatal "accidents" on an otherwise brilliant, efficient, exemplary, single-aisle aircraft. Sadly the Boeing bashing media narrative continues, and is quite contagious judging by this comment thread. Sh-tty work at the at the other plant need be rectified, no doubt or denial there, but the end of the article just so happens to state (buried, as not to disrupt the driven, anti-Boeing narrative,) "On the other hand, KLM is quite satisfied with the operational performance of its Dreamliners. The airline has recently ordered one more Boeing 787 and exchanged its A350s on order with the 787s ordered by the other Group partner Air France."
jimquinndallas
Jim Quinn 5
I'm sure the unions are more than happy to spread this news..
btweston
btweston -5
You do realize that this makes zero sense, right?
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 7
maybe you better explain why it doesn't.
yarnoca1
John Yarno 3
I can't help but wonder if the negative comments about quality are union driven. That aside, being born in and raised around Seattle-Everett loyalty to the Boeing brand has been ingrained from childhood. I am sick to read about the current situation. Such a long proud history, and now this. I really hope they recover, but it looks like a long battle.
watersw1
Bill Waters 3
Shut down that plant; fire every SOB in there, restaff and reopen. Too serious of a issue to just shrug your shoulders at.
crk112
crk112 1
Sounds like the same folks that built my travel trailer

mtfazakas
Matthew Fazakas 1
It is greed
Shaner777
Shane Hunt 1
Exactly.
kubarycz
Kevin Kubarycz 0
This reads like lobbying propaganda from the Seattle labor unions.
DaveCooke
Dave Cooke -1
The original story could also be digested as euro centric Airbus agitprop. Without a detailed look at the alleged problems cited by KLM, how are we to know the truth? Anyone care to take a stab at investigative journalism?
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 2
It didn't make sense to me either, so I took a stab at it.

Turns out the story on the dutch website cited by airlinerwatch was not sourced from a news release, interview, or inquiry... by, of, or to KLM. The info came from Boeing, who solicited it from KLM as part of their routine aircraft delivery and customer sign off process.

So basically we are supposed to believe that KLM would write "the quality control at the Boeing's Charleston factory is far below the acceptable standards" on the receipt for a new airplane.

I, for one, am not that stupid. Routine problems identified and fixed as part of the routine aircraft delivery process. Anything can be weaponized into propaganda these days. People around here just eat it up.

steerts
Ron Streetenberger 1
I have been down-voted twice in the last two threads that I have participated in. I failed to realize that Flight Aware is just another tool of the growing socialist movement. Down-voting has always been a way of silencing those you disagree with in Communist societies. Who the hell needs my opinions anyway? Adios muchachos.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 1
Don't feel too bad, I few comments up I've been down voted so many times that you now have to click to see...my question. I'm probably not the first guy in the gulag for asking questions, and probably won't be the last.
chotiwala
Austin Deppe 1
Sometimes I feel that the hostility over at A.net has migrated here.
strickerje
strickerje 0
That’s why I left a.net years ago. Sadly Flyertalk and here are getting to be the same.
SoCalFlyr
John Wilson 1
I can't help but wonder about employees who complain about poor workmanship in their own products. If I did a crappy job, or observed my co-worker(s) doing one without saying anything, I sure wouldn't brag about it.
speshulk99
john kilcher 0
Please do some intelligent investigating in to alternate non MSM butt kissing "legitimate" news outlets.
karandjoh
John Reilly -9
wopri
Wolfgang Prigge 4
Doesn’t that mean « Mexicans Always Get Across »?
MIKESWICK
MIKE SWICK 2
karandjoh
John Reilly 1
Probably very true! You gave me my laugh for the day.

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