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Alaska Airlines Embraer E175 Diverts After Cockpit Jumpseat Passenger Tries To Shut Down Engines

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An Alaska Airlines Embraer E175 was forced to divert from its flight path, as a person sitting in the flight deck jump seat attempted to shut down the aircraft's engines. The flight, operated by Horizon Air, safely diverted to Portland International Airport (PDX) on October 22, 2023. According to Flightradar24, Horizon Air flight AS2059 was a regularly scheduled flight between Seattle Paine Field International Airport (PAE) and San Francisco International Airport (SFO). Less than an hour… (simpleflying.com) More...

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dupleix0
dupleix0 9
According to recent news, this off duty pilot has said to the investigators he has been using hallucinog substances (?). He was so dreaming awake that he allegedly also tried to open one of the read exits of the plane...
He was obviously...not well!
thenotoriousrob
rob strong 10
Mushrooms. First time taking them... (allegedly). Another excuse.
jmadunleavy
John D 12
People in certain occupations ought know that some things are off limits, period. I have a security clearance. One quick way to loose it is to pick weed back up after a several decade hiatus. Not going to happen.
rvasic
ratko vasic 1
Another way of loosing security clearance is to share it on internet :-)
jmadunleavy
John D 1
If that’s how it worked, I/2 the people with profiles on LinkedIn would lose theirs.
cfisher7860
Cynthia Fisher -4
Could be another lost pilot to YKW!
AirplaneC
C J 28
This is why we can't have nice things. Bye-bye jumpseating!
Bobh528FA
Bob Hallissy 17
On the other hand, one could argue that in the case where one of the two on-duty crew members in the cockpit decides to try something like this, having a jumpseater improves the odds of subduing the errant crew member and thus achieving a better outcome.
usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 2
At least the co-pilot should always be a strong, husky guy!
AJMesalic
AJ Mesalic 9
Or my daughter. He wouldn't have stood a chance.
AirplaneC
C J 4
Bob...mistake number 1 in your statement is that it makes too much sense! haha You're completely correct in my opinion. Frankly, this is just one event that shouldn't (but will) cause any change in industry practices around jumpseating.
btweston
btweston 17
Well, the guy was a pilot. Just like the Germanwings pilot that locked the captain out of the cockpit and crashed into the Alps.

Jumpseating has nothing to do with it, aside from the guy sitting in a jumpseat. He could have just as easily done this while sitting in a seat at the controls. The question is why, though most people won’t care why.
thegrump
thegrump 4
my instinct is to be completely against suggestions of making scheduled commercial flights completely automated - the technology ain't there, but it is probably a few years away, not a few decades. For the last couple of decades, the worst airline disasters have by someone on the flight deck intentionally crashing the aircraft.

I mean, the positive side of it is clearly that air travel is statistically safer than almost anything but sleeping. Improvements in training and skills of flight crews have no doubt contributed to that. But we may have reached the point of diminishing returns.

I am not ready to buy a ticket on El Cheapo airlines with a Tesla Panicstop-at-random(tm) flight system running the flight deck. But there are more responsible players in the aviation world, with a lot more to lose from designs not completely thought through *cough*737max*cough*
AJMesalic
AJ Mesalic 2
It almost sounds like you're saying that the human is now the most unreliable component of commercial aviation when viewed based on failure causes.

Of course, it's the humans that make it as safe as it is too. I think it's a case for AI/remote control oversite at least. Maybe the combination of real and artificial intel will be great for the flying public.
AirplaneC
C J 1
Yes, I can understand that he could have done it while flying himself, but saying that jumpseating has nothing to do with it is a pretty ignorant. You referenced the Germanwings event, which led to European airlines enforcing rules like US carriers have where a single pilot can't be alone in a cockpit. Reducing the people in cockpit who are just riding will be viewed as the change needed to avoid this in the future...hence, bye-bye jumpseating.
pvn
Paul Novarese 5
that's completely the opposite of what happened in response to the germanwings case. Reducing the number of people in the cockpit is what enabled that situation. Two people in the cockpit against a crazy attacker have a better chance than one.
Bobh528FA
Bob Hallissy 3
I think you are misreading CJ's post. He said "Reducing the people in the cockpit who are just riding" -- that is, reducing the jumpseater numbers (not reducing the flight crew numbers).
victorbravo77
victorbravo77 8
A link to atc comms by VAS Aviation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbU6E6VJx30

And another article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/us/alaska-airlines-flight-diverted.html?unlocked_article_code=1.40w.h61Z.OosZqjRhOQ9_&smid=url-share
stardog01
stardog01 8
What's scary is this guy was a current pilot. He could have done this on a flight where he was a pilot.
mbrews
mbrews 4
Update. Recent news says the off-duty pilot had taken "magic mushrooms". There are state laws in Washington state and Colorado state tending to "de-criminalize" psilocybin. Is California next ?
Does the aviation industry need to consider psychoactives in fitness-for-duty screening ?

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/26/california-magic-mushroom-legalization-alaska-airlines-pilot-00123670
jmadunleavy
John D 2
Right? I understood they were ferrying him to SFO for his flight!
mbrews
mbrews 4
Not exactly. As per news reports which named the suspect, the suspect resides in the SFO California Bay Area. Could have been simply catching a company ride home from Seattle area to SFO area. The investigation will tell us
xtoler
Larry Toler 9
This reminds me of the Fed Ex pilot jump seating who almost killed the crew while flying. Amazingly no one died and the plane was safely landed.
jmadunleavy
John D 9
I expect there'll be a policy change on visitors to the cockpits before the end of the day.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 9
The FAA is purely reactionary. So yes.
Ceman361YT
Conner Lipke -1
I wouldn't say visitors after the flight but probably for jumpseating. Honestly who knows.
AirplaneC
C J -4
You don't really know what "before the end of the day" means, do you?
xtoler
Larry Toler 3
When all said and done.
augerin
Dave Mathes 6
....he didn't need the jumpseat, he was already flying....
beilstwh
beilstwh 3
the problem was the guy was trying to self Medicate for mental health issues, the major downside for him was if he reported he was having mental issues he is immediately grounded and will probably never fly commercial again. can I understand the airlines, you bet.
mhagerty21
Well, I guess the magic mushrooms might explain things.
thegrump
thegrump 2
as a former deadhead (ok probably need to be more specific here lol) I did use 'shrooms back in the day. They were actually quite pleasant - but that was when I was healthy, well-rested, and in a relaxed place listening to some music - not on the flight deck of an airliner after going 40 hours without sleeping.

I have had times when I've been awake for maybe 30 hours while responding to some emergency, and I know that even without any mind-altering substances, I struggled with basic decision-making and the ability to tell reality from memories or ideas started to be a little fuzzy for any kind of nuanced thinking. Sleep deprivation sucks. This poor guy was probably a mess even without tossing back a handful of shrooms.
briansfreeman
Brian Freeman 4
Drugs aren't bad because they're illegal - drugs are illegal because they're bad.
brianrush
his story is suspect... he planned and got approval for jump seat, he knew what switches to hit to crash plane... tells me he was planned sucide. Keep him off ALL planes forever. want to kill yourslef -- go do it but do not risk others.
thenotoriousrob
rob strong 7
Fire him, jail him, ban him for life from flying. So sick of mental health being everyone's excuse. And mushrooms coming to a state near you... already approved in several, so things will get more interesting everywhere. Spare me your micro dosing comments also. Grow up.
josiaswattrelos
For reasons like this, an employee about to be fired must be immediately removed from company resources and all access.
ekim125
ekim125 2
It really has little to do with jump seats; more to do with FAA antiquated, not medical best-practices, mental health policies.
Pilot in question reports significant signs/symptoms of clinical depression with suicidal ideation. My guess is that he researched how mushroom hallucinogens have been(are) successfully being used to treat depression (many funded studies looking at hallucinogens).

He, probably, in part because of afore mentioned ineffective FAA policies rt mental health/psychoactive medications, tried self-medication to treat his depression. Time to talk about those policies folks, they are dangerous. Mood disorders are treatable, and folks in treatment are high functioning, adaptive to handling high stress situations.

Folks in high stress careers benefit from open honest mental health care including counseling and psychotherapeutics from experienced psychiatrists - not just a primary care doc prescribing psychoactive medications.
bondgirlpa02
Emily Borowski 3
Here’s an update from a local news station with a link to the court document. https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/im-not-ok-moments-before-off-duty-pilot-allegedly-tried-to-bring-down-plane-revealed/
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 3
Thanks for the link.
Ceman361YT
Conner Lipke 3
Riding Jumpseat will probably be way more restrictive for awhile after that.
brianrush
thankfully he did what he did and was sucessfully subdued. he was scheduled to fly out of SFO later. He must be on a NEVER FLY list forever.
usrepeaters
Rob Palmer 2
Too bad his friends/family couldn't have gotten him into a different hobby, such as model electric trains, instead of the "Crazy mushrooms". Good, quick way to end a great career. Maybe FAA needs a recommended hobby list?
cfisher7860
Cynthia Fisher 1
Are they reporting here yet of all the in-air mishaps with pilots and first officers keeling over onboard; the diversions due to this? Other platforms are running these numbers daily and the number of dead or disabled pilots is mounting exponentially; thus more delayed and cancelled flights due to pilot shortages. FAA even lowered the safe window for troponin levels in pilots so more unhealthy ones can pass the flight physicals. It’s all because of the YKWs! Be safe up there!
dwiggins01
Scott Wiggins -1
I'm flying privately after a military career. Combined forty years in the cockpit. I've never heard of so many in flight deaths as in the last couple of years. As well, there are cases of unresponsive pilots in single piloted aircraft that crash with the NTSB not knowing what happened. My information is anecdotal. I doubt the vaunted FAA Aeromedical people want to track the increases since they didn't say a word about Biden's mandate. They aren't going to report on themselves are they?
AirplaneC
C J 1
"You've never heard of so many deaths" is a sound and verifiable data source. Well done on leaning into the "trust me, I'm a pilot" methodology. Also, which crashes are you referring to? My assumption is the recent Citation crash in Virginia. If you don't know what happened there, you have no business being in a cockpit. And if you think that that accident is related to vaccines, then you must also believe that the pilots in the King Air crash in Australia, Payne Stewarts pilots, and the pilots of Helios 522 are all time travelers who had lived through their vaccines in 2020+, and then went back in time to pilot those flights. Sound logic, Scott. You're a real intelligent guy. I'm sure the military misses that brain power.
CCW1
John Prukop -5
Ya have to wonder, did this pilot take ANY of the Trumpee "OPERATION WARPSPEED" shots or boosters? That in and of itself could be the underlying problem. Millions have been disabled, destroyed or died from that criminal act. Just look at all the athletes who've taken the jabs and died or been disablled by myocarditis.
ekim125
ekim125 1
Bullshit John
CCW1
John Prukop -2
Go do some serious research and you will find that what I've stated is the absolute truth. The jabs have caused numerous victims of myocarditis, incapacitation, blood clots and death. You might want to to discover what these doctors have to say about it: Dr. Thomas Cowan; Dr. Andrew Kaufman; Dr. Sam Bailey (co-author of Virus Mania); and, Naturopathic Dr. Amandha Vollmer (see Yummy.Doctor).
jmadunleavy
John D 2
FFS. Every one of these people are discredited conspiracy theorists.
AirplaneC
C J 0
lol Time to get off the internet for a bit John. You talk about "serious" research, but you'll only read what fuels your narrative. You, just like the far left wingers that you probably despise, are an unwitting puppet.
aaadios
Helen Hecker 1
If the jump seat pilot was successful, was there any way to restart the engines while at altitude?
ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 0
No. I am not aware of a modern design that would allow the engine to continue operating after activating the fire extinguishing system.
snow
James Cox 8
Pulling the fire handles only shuts off fuel etc, you can reset them by moving them back to the normal position, so an engine start could be possible. Firing the fire extinguishers is a separate action.
ewrcap
David Beattie 6
The engine is capable of a restart even if extinguisher is fired. It could cause some damage since the extinguishent is corrosive and may cause some minor damage but not a total failure. Keep in mind the extinguishers discharge around but not inside the engine.
augerin
Dave Mathes 4
...give KUDOS where KUDOS due..the front seats had their acts together!...
tonupbsa
F Holden 1
Off-duty pilot accused of trying to crash Alaska Airlines jet cites breakdown, "Mr Emerson also referenced taking psychedelic mushrooms, the complaint says."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67207361
victorbravo77
victorbravo77 1
...developing story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/us/alaska-airlines-off-duty-pilot-arraignment.html?unlocked_article_code=1.5Ew.MsFO.tdhrT62sSKmr&smid=url-share
jmilleratp
jmilleratp -5
FAA Aeromedical stops people like me from working as pilots because of minor medical conditions. But, the FAA has no problem letting people like this fly unrestricted. Your government "at work."
AirplaneC
C J -2
From what I've seen, there wasn't any indication prior to the event that the pilot was showing or had reported any mental health issues. Given that those issues may have been completely hidden, you can't compare it to something like heart disease which presents itself to a medical professional. Despite what the signals may be telling you through your tin foil hat, what you're saying isn't an apples to apples comparison and you can't blame it on government functions.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

AirplaneC
C J -1
Rarely have I associated Christianity with rational thinking, logic, and common sense but I suppose I'll take it if that's what you're accusing me of? To be blunt, I've got no idea what your comment is supposed to mean, but based on your insane original comment, that isn't terribly surprising.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

AirplaneC
C J -4
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

AirplaneC
C J -6
You're adorable. You seem to be reading (or at least sounding out the big words the best you can) and responding eagerly. I appreciate that you're a fan of mine. Thanks, champ.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp -6
Timing is everything! I just got online this morning and there was notification of another random reply. Every single reply you make is out of the "Trolling for Dummies" book. It's all completely predictable, so why read it? Thanks for the "champ." Anyone who reads these squawks daily knows that everyone on here always gets a "Thanks, champ" or "Okay, boomer" from you.
AirplaneC
C J -6
First, none of this explains your strange, nonsensical comments. Second, saying that mental health issues aren't as easy as a physical condition for a doctor to note isn't trolling (not to mention that everyone is still confused by how you associated this with the government or how they should have known about this guy). FINALLY...I thought you said you didn't read my comments ya silly goose??? As I said before though, I appreciate it sport! Keep your chin up. I trust that you're better than this performance shows.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp -3
Hey, so far I have gotten "sport" and "champ." I can only hope for "boomer."
AirplaneC
C J -5
In due time, boomer, in due time.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 0
My life is now complete.
dwiggins01
Scott Wiggins -8
Well, they allow very few legal drugs for pilots but they sure tried to mandate an experimental vaccine for pilots. I see lots of died in flight cases now. Our government is the enemy for sure. States legalizing drugs are merely fueling addiction. A handful of loser users have done this.
beilstwh
beilstwh 1
the covid vaccine is one of the most effective and safe vaccine that was ever deployed, actually do real scientific research and not parrot the garbage coming out of fox news
ewrcap
David Beattie -1
And how good are you at picking out who is or isn’t crazy or who has the potential? I’m sure you would excoriate the FAA if they required a full psychiatric screening before every flight. Like many, this is the case of someone who appears totally normal 99% of the time. Nobody knew.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 0
You should certainly have had a full psychological battery of tests before touching an aircraft.
jbermo
jbermo 0
Amazing that a mere little regional jet of today carries more passengers than any state-of-the-art mainline prop airliner of the 50s.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
Not really that amazing since technology is advancing at an ever accelerating rate. But wile these regionals are now hauling more and more passengers we should reflect on how air travel has gone from something that only a few could afford to mass transportation that the majority can afford. This has allowed us freedom to travel that our grandparents wouldn’t have thought possible.
dwiggins01
Scott Wiggins -1
I joined the military in the early 80s. More senior officers and NCOs had many stories of drug abuse aboard ship, working on aircraft, even flying aircraft. Mandatory urinalysis pretty well eradicated drug use in the military. Now, blue states want to bring all those problems back. Drugs are poison and extremely insidious. Easily hidden and easily taken to impair oneself. The Legalize it crowd have gotten their way after decades and the blood is on their hands. I know two people in Ventura, CA who both lost sons to fentanyl. California is in real trouble due to soft on drug policies.
jmadunleavy
John D 0
CCW1
John Prukop 0
Looking at his FAA Airman Certificates, WHY would this individual RISK IT ALL to do such a stupid, pyschedelic Mushroom 'TRIP' while transiting to his very nice home? What exactly TRIGGERED this individual to go to this extent? Human factors are obviously in question here. Is this what other Alaska/Horizon pilots are pressured with - like 40-HOURS of no sleep to make the sched? Something is seriously wrong with this entire picture. And nothing reported in the MSM can be trusted.
ekim125
ekim125 2
It’s got nothing to do with rational. He has a mood disorder (Depression). He was desperate, the industry essentially prohibits evaluation & treatment of mood disorders, so he perhaps tried to self-medicate with a psychoactive substance proven useful in treating Depression, which does not require a visit to a physician and Rx.

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