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Feds: 12 planes violated Trump air space over weekend

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At least 12 aircraft violated temporary flight restrictions through Monday afternoon for President Donald Trump’s Palm Beach Mar-a-Lago stay, with at least five of those having the unique experience of being buzzed by military aircraft, federal officials confirmed to The Palm Beach Post. Eight of those crossed the line on Friday alone, with three of those having what likely were unsettling encounters with F-15 jets and one with a military helicopter, according to the Federal Aviation… (www.palmbeachpost.com) المزيد...

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aidannorman
aidannorman 17
I don't mean to start any fight but they have got to work out a deal with the locals so they can fly. If I lived here I would be pretty mad if I couldn't fly my plane on weekends, which is the only time I really have the time.
dragonflyt10
William Barrow 1
The whole "temporary flight restriction" process over Presidential travel (same problem with ground transport) is gross over reaction. My heart goes out to all the air travelers and locals when the previous Pres. went to Hawaii. With all the protection our President gets, this process gets worse with each successive administration and is just over the top already!
UAL777
Jim Newton 5
TFR's are important and every pilot knows to check NOTAMS as well, but where were the TRACON guys advising those 12 pilots? BTW, any aircraft which refuses to comply with a military escort runs the risk of being shot out of the sky.
beachrez
Linda Gillis 7
The only difference between Obama & Trump is that Obama didn't go to Hawaii every weekend.
joelwiley
joel wiley 10
Methinks there may be a few other 'wee' differences between them.
geharper
geharper 5
I think this just points out the problems with this whole TFR process.
Chirurgo
Domenic Esposito 5
Glad I don't live in the area. What is bothering me is why we have to pay for security in NYC,DC and Palm Beach at the same time. There should be a limit on tax dollars for this nonsense per month. After they spend that amount they are responsible for the rest
bbabis
Bill Babis 13
Checking TFRs is more important than checking weather anymore. You can't just go out on a beautiful day and cruise the beach NORDO.
MCKerr
Mike Kerr 4
You know the biggest security risk for Mar-a-Lago is a guest at his resort or a wedding while he's there. Oh I guess wealthy people don't do crazy things like that.
CaptainFreedom
CaptainFreedom 9
I'm surprised that the F-15s didn't stall and crash when stalking those menacing 172s and Commanches.
godestiny
William Medlin 3
Gear down, full flaps!
UAL777
Jim Newton 1
Well at least 2 selected Zone-5 for a reason and many "heard" the results below.
kwilde54
KEITH WILDE 1
Why you want them to stall or crash F15 go by you you will know it
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 11
Just paint a big red circle on the ground with red stripes with the mansion at the center. I remember many years ago while waiting for the am takeoff curfew for jets to lift at PBI and along comes this pilot and plunks down the $1,500 noise violation fine (I think) and says matter of factly, the boss wants to go now and to use max power with a slight left turn out over the water. Everyone laughed. Nice trail of smoke from the Spey's.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 3
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 3
You bet, haha.
bcanderson
Brian Anderson 3
No excuse for violating airspace, but waiting for nearly the last minute for the NOTAMs to go up is at least partially to blame as well. I've departed PBI twice and arrived once (via MCO) while the TFR was up. TSA at PBI is very reasonable and easy to work with.
ianrayburnhotmailcom
Ian Rayburn 5
Being from Canada, a true democracy, my first reaction was; who cares? If this dude would spend more time doing his job in Washington, then none of this would happen.
rmills
Rick Mills 4
Unfortunately these 12 pilots erred because of their own failures. As pilots we were trained to check the weather, NOTAM’s and TRF’s in the area of flight before departure. These pilots obviously skipped a step. TFR's have existed for years and, like them or not, we must adhere to the law. I do hope an amiable solution can be reached that will allow these pilots more freedom to fly in that area and know AOPA is involved in a possible solution.
rboddy91
Rich Boddy 4
If the FAA and SS can't get this figured out, it's going to be a LOOOOONG 4 years for GA operators in WPB if Trump plans on regular visits to Mar-a-Lago.
AMERIFLITE
JOHN DEITERS 2
Use flight following coupled with good preflight preparation and you will be just fine
rmchambers
rmchambers 3
Wow, did you read the invective in the comments on the palmbeachpost site? apparently everyone that flies a small plane is a millionare... I wonder when my million will get deposited into my bank account.

The ADIZ around DC put many businesses out of business, it's created orphan airports that is a total PITA to get in and out of and has reduced transient GA visits to the area by a huge amount, and for what safety improvements?

I fly in the northeast around New York so now I have to watch out for Trump Tower TFR's as well. The folks in Southern Florida are going to suffer under this. Some sense of normalcy needs to return to the Secret Service and the FAA. There has to be some way to allow the small airports to function even when the president is at his property in Florida.

Sending F-15's is overkill but when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
djjamar
Jamar Jackson 4
Do we really need an F15 for a Cessna or a piper single or twin. An A-10 would be a better fit for this job especially with that 30mm poking out front
bbabis
Bill Babis 6
Then they couldn't make sonic booms getting there.
UAL777
Jim Newton 1
Only certain aircraft are allowed to escort AF-1. Though the Warthog is a great A/C, it's not on the list.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

btweston
btweston 12
Your tin foil hat is not operating properly.
rmchambers
rmchambers 3
you could fly a drone in there or a large RC airplane with a payload before scrambled jets could intercept. Let the reaction match the actual threat. If they can't protect him then he shouldn't be going there. Face it a TFR is only as effective as the pilots who adhere to it. If you're not bent on harming the president it would make no difference if the TFR was there or not, if you are hell bent on harming him then a TFR is NOT going to stop you. Laws don't stop anything, they just punish people to serve as a reminder to others.
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
Sort of like gun control, eh?
yr2012
matt jensen -3
USAF uses what is available and closeby. A10's are several hundred miles further north and not used for that.
paultrubits
paul trubits 11
POTUS golfing on the weekends in Palm Beach appears to be the new normal. They could schedule the A10 drivers to patrol the coast and show their true value. Making America great again by keeping Worth Ave and A1A safe!
joelwiley
joel wiley 0
Besides, Floridians probably prefer 20mm rounds dropping into their neighborhoods.
alan75035
alan75035 2
The sonic booms we heard last Friday evening were most definitely not "fake news".
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 2
It's funny how we are chatting back and forth on here (and it's appreciated) about this and yet forget something...he has spent more on travel in 1 month (coming out of taxpayers pockets), than most presidents do in a year, because he wants to be at his upty swanky resort every weekend?
And not just that, he is costing business's, and pilots who cant fly out unless going through the gauntlet of paperwork and fees, money...not cool.
UAL777
Jim Newton 0
I would advise you to check how many hours Obama put on both 28000 and 29000. You might be surprised.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 4
28000 and 29000?...for the record to compare with just the past president, Obama costs a total of $97 million over the course of the 8 years in office on trips...Trump has been in office a little over a month and already racked up over $11 million and that isnt including how much the community has lost.
djeanis
Dirk Jeanis -3
Well...considering that Obama was in office 96 months ....Trump is right on schedule for the same with or without a reasonable COLA of a couple percent.
However, First Lady Obama probably exceeded Obama's expenditures from everything I have read. I doubt we will see that under Trump.

With regard to interfering with commerce and people's lives....There was MUCH written about the thousands of people that Obama stepped on annually with unscheduled closures of golf courses etc. The biggest difference is when it is a world class destination golf coarse in HI and average joes that spent 5 years saving to spend a week there golfing only to get cut from the greens...that is a huge hit to take for the convenience of POTUS' unscheduled enjoyment. It wasn't just a few pilots so far and possibly a golfer or two...it was thousands over the years with Otero. Let's see if he figures this out.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 4
Your math needs work...if Trump kept up and stays in office 96 months, thats $960 million spent on travel, not $97 million...and as far as comparing this to Obama, I'm not going there as this is an aviation forum, not a political henhouse.
djeanis
Dirk Jeanis -2
Ahh yeas I did put a wrong decimal point mentally (an unusual moment for me!), however I just reviewed some information. This only included the 100 or so Secret Service agents, not the 150 or so others that were in his retinue nor the travel for his family and their secret service (which was pretty much separate) as far as I can tell. One interesting question is, what does it cost to protect POTUS when "at home"? It may be we need that info in order to tell if the numbers are that much worse.

You are correct that this is not the forum. However I think we can all hope that Trump will figure it out soon. My prayer is that he is divesting himself of other responsibilities in his trips to FL. This takes time to do.
peterlmaas2
Peter Maas 1
Do NOT forget the 19 pilots we trained in Florida. This was a "friendly" exchange with Saudi Arabia. The result of this training caused the 9-11 disaster. I am a U.S. Air Force veteran. I believe in a TIGHT control of air space any where the President goes.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

joelwiley
joel wiley 10
Inadvertently, you are partially correct: "total media bias" IS fake news
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
I wish you idiots would knock it off with this FAKE NEWS BS because it's getting old REAL FAST!...if all the news and media outlets are fake news, then why is Trumpster watching it and using it as "some reference material"....and BTW...this DID happen.
chiphermes
Chip Hermes 29
I don't think Damon is being serious.....just trying to make squawk comments great again.
CaptainFreedom
CaptainFreedom 7
I gave him a thumbs up....just for the hell of it.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 8
He's being serious...and those type of squawk comments aren't that great...sorry I come here to read, comment and a few times debate that which is aviation related, not someone's political hierarchy.
UAL777
Jim Newton 2
Here here!! This is an aviation forum. Everyone please check your politics at your keyboard!
patpylot
patrick baker -5
the flight operators and pilots of palm beach as well as the small business owners are ever so grateful to trump for the loss of mobility and the loss of business traffic coming into their stores whenever he sets up camp at Mar-Da Lago. It is not like he has to work much more on his tan.
joelwiley
joel wiley 13
Come now, they've only lost about a quarter mil so far. That's a small price to pay for draining the swamp in DC and getting rid of all those Goldman Sachs executives on the federal payroll. Oh wait...


http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/local-govt--politics/lantana-airport-boss-continued-trump-visits-could-kill-this-airport/BTHphM8YG8GPZ86j6ee4EM/
joelwiley
joel wiley 8
One solution just occurred to me: Seek Federal Disaster Area certification due to the economic losses. Call it Fluricane Donald.
richardstrizver
richard strizver -3
You know it really bothers me that the former liar in chief Obama flew far and often but I don't recall hearing all the complaints about him or the small planes that "violated" his precious air space.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
I recall several reports of TFR violations over the 8 years of the Obama administration but don't have actual numbers. However, it sounds like LOTUS (Liar Of the United States) has had more incursions already than Obama's 8 years total. Any have stats on TFR violations?
UAL777
Jim Newton -1
You didn't hear it because some of it is classified.
djeanis
Dirk Jeanis 0
The headline is completely disrespectful The airspace belongs to the secret service, possibly POTUS not to Trump by name. If this was an article about Obama or Clinton it would have said "President" or "POTUS" or even "secured"...not "Trump air space". The most acceptable headline would be "secured air space". It is as factual and neutral an one could be.

I do not appreciate the constant negativity and animosity presented toward this president. I think that colleges and universities must be teaching "propaganda methods for media majors" now instead of teaching how to be a news reporter. Even my HS news and reporting teacher would never have allowed such a headline. In fact just the repetition of phraseology of certain words would have sent this article back to someone's desk instead of publish.

All of that being said, it is time for the secret service to reconsider the methods of handling security and assure that security does not affect local persons and businesses negatively. Remember that the imposition of air restrictions is actually unconstitutional interference of a person's right to freely travel. There would be no difference if it was horseback travel 200 years ago, stopping passage is a violation of the Constitution. It would be good to see some balance in the white house security team for once. I am sure that some intelligent people may work there and could figure this out a little more rationally.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 3
Nice try except 1 small detail you did not realize...Mar-a-lago is no longer a government owned property but is in fact owned by Trump...hence it is Trump airspace...had this been done pre-1980, then your comment would have indeed held merit since, at that time, it was an official government retreat and the secret service would have indeed owned it when certain members of government and/or their families was there.
djeanis
Dirk Jeanis 0
Nice try yourself.
Where ever POTUS goes there is a secure bubble around him at all times. It makes no difference who owns the property or where that property is, even in other countries it exists. It is a lot easier in places where there is a system in place.
Fund raising by POTUS is a larger issue should be eliminated. POTUS should represent all the people and be forbidden to engage in such conflict of interest.
rapidwolve
rapidwolve 1
It makes a huge difference as it IS around his own private property and is done so almost every weekend since his candidacy win, NOT just the presidential win!..Camp David for example is already a secured government stronghold ie bubble and when he travels to other countries, government safe locations are already in place.
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
Wherein lies the headline's disrespect?

How would you, or your HS news teacher have worded the headline? Something like "12 aircraft violated Temporary Flight Restriction area centered on The Mara-Lago Club" would be too wordy. "Air Space" is probably more widely understood than TFR. That the restriction was due to the presence of Mr. Trump, being more recognizable than POTUS, and shorter than President, I think the name use is acceptable.

Has "the imposition of air restrictions is actually unconstitutional interference of a person's right to freely travel" been testing in the courts, or is is merely an opinion?
UAL777
Jim Newton -3
Excuse me, but Obama burned more Jet-A and the current engines on 28000 and 29000 than any previous president. Those two 747-220b's were run into the ground with all his fundraising and vacations. Once more, he never learned how to properly salute at the bottom of the gang plank.
cm2ok
Mike Klein 0
Hey, come on, a J3 probably doesn't have a enough heat signature for a redeye or big enough radar target for an a aaram, so about the only thing that might bring it down is some severe wake turbulence. Let's send some Hercs or C5s after these terrorists; what the heck, with all the budget cuts these guys need some logged time too!
CHBHA
CB HARDY 0
What folks won't do for a glimpse of Air Force One.
bcfd29
Pete Schecter 0
"NOT my president - NOT my TFR" (painted on the roof of a nearby undisclosed location).

Relax: in no more than eight (8) years, airspace will return to whatever passes for normal around KPBI and that part of Flori-DUH.
cujet
Chris Cuneo 0
I'm based at PBI, Trump's home airport. At Trumps request, we now have procedures that allow the vast majority of part 91 operators to fly. With the exception of LNA airport, which unfortunately remains closed during the TFR. (that needs to change, ASAP) . The procedures are easy enough to follow, but do impose additional burdens. The TSA is available at each PBI FBO. File in advance (24 hours required, but 4 seems to be sufficient) , Clear TSA screening, use the proper squawk and go fly the proper route, while remaining in contact with PBI. Arrivals need to clear TSA at a nearby gateway airport, file, squawk n talk properly before entering the TFR. For many of us, the additional burden can be boiled down to the gateway airport landing and TSA clearance.

I suggest the FAA relax some of the burdens in agreement with the right to free and unrestricted travel, upheld by SCOTUS in 5 major decisions.

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