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The Crash of Two Airplanes and the Crisis at Boeing

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FLYING BLIND The 737 Max Tragedy and the Fall of Boeing By Peter Robison (www.nytimes.com) المزيد...

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ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 15
I can't wait to read this book.
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
It is a very good read!
M20ExecDriver
M20ExecDriver 7
Same CEO and board mindset at the Big Three automakers that mostly caused their downfall. If it could be removed,including engineers and highest paid blue collar workers. Managers were rewarded for getting rid of people, not improving the process or the product.
M20ExecDriver
M20ExecDriver 5
Same Perp that led Boeing went to Ford Motor Co. Same results.
sparkie624
sparkie624 6
Very well written article... Everyone should read it. - Thanks for Sharing.
MHarryE
Michael Enzmann 6
It will be an interesting read because it is not agreement with what my father's cousin told me. He began with Boeing out of University in 1940's and was terminated in 1974 with the SST program. He then bounced around west coast ending up as partner in contract engineering on B2 for Northrup. He said none of the companies had respect for engineers - they were commodity. I followed in his path as an engineer but his advice to my generation was go into something else - his son in business. He had little respect for Boeing and how they felt about engineers - 50 years ago.
jimjallen
Jim Allen 5
I believe it. At my former company an experienced Senior Unix System Admin was told by management “you can be replaced by an offshore $10/hr Unix Admin”. At a lot of companies the only respect is for employees that generate income. I never thought I would see that attitude towards engineers though but I shouldn’t be surprised.
user3956
user3956 7
I work in software and heard a senior manager once say that the developers' (computer programmers) skills were just a commodity. What a fool. The software literally doesn't exist with those engineers just like the planes don't fly without aviation engineers. People like this are the worst kind to have in management and unfortunately they're all over the place and apparently drink from the same water source of something because they all come up with the most horrible ideas that should get them fired but ends up always getting others fired.
wadesta19
Wade Wolfenbarger 6
Reading the book now, pour a strong glass of Whiskey and sit in a comfortable chair because you won't be.
polmarik
Rick Polley 14
Isn't this just so normal in the corrupt world we live in today, especially America. Heap all the blame on an employee. I'm not saying the flight test crew are innocent but the board were encouraging the taking of more cost effective short cuts. Big tough America and their business is acquiring such a bad reputation around the world. In a lot of decent countries around the world, Dennis Muilenburg and some of his board would be behind bars and rightly so. Be responsible for nearly 350 deaths but no worries, do what you like in America as there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY.
wiregold
wiregold 4
That Boeing hired the prosecutor as a partner in their law firm shouts corruption. The clause exempting Boeing execs from culpability in the settlement only confirms it.
TWA55
TWA55 2
So much to be said, to put it simply, Boeing is only one case study of all that has gone wrong with the U.S. and its proud history of producing the best. This trend has infected the entire nation now and the slide continues.
TiredTom
Tom Bruce 1
I got it... will read soon...
cncjgb
Jack Bennett 1
The "Lazy B" is a duplicate of a government bureau. More politics and political clambering than in some or own governmental bodies....

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 5
'“I’m disappointed with those who sit in their lofty chairs of judgment and say this wouldn’t have happened to U.S. pilots,” said a veteran captain with a major U.S. airline, who asked not to be named to avoid involving his employer.'
Source:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/how-much-was-pilot-error-a-factor-in-the-boeing-737-max-crashes/
boughbw
boughbw 8
The trim problem happened in the US and the pilots handled it and reprted it. It also happened at Lion Air on the plane that crashed the day before, but the jump seat pilot knew what to do and did it.
This isn’t academic. Mr. Baker is correct.
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/584791/
AeroncaGuy
Rick Cowan 4
So those who designed the buggy, dangerous trim system that forced the plane into a dive bear no responsibility?!
boughbw
boughbw 4
Is that what I wrote? Re-reading it, I see absolutely no mention of anything absolving Boeing of blame.
There is plenty of blame to go around, and that includes airlines with sketchy pilot training and maintenance regimes right along with Boeing.
You might not like what Charles Baker wrote, but I provided evidence that showed his opinion corresponds with the facts. You should adjust your opinion as well.
LeftlySC
Stephen Leftly 2
Well Boughbw I would say let's look at the sequence of events...
(1) Poorly designed system, with no redundancy of sensors, deliberately minimized in documentation / training / notification to FAA etc. puts plane into a catastrophic dive. I don't think there can be any reasonable doubt that Boeing effectively mislead FAA, airlines as to the differences between the MAX and previous generations of the plane to minimize type approval , airline training costs, increase sales

(2) Poorly trained inexperienced pilot (partly due to (1)) under extreme pressure, did not do the right thing and paid for their mistake with their lives.

Without (1), (2) never happens.

I think that makes the case that Boeing was the primary cause, not the sole cause, but certainly the primary cause.


boughbw
boughbw 1
I’m largely on agreement. Profit motive and conflicts of interests with their buyers and a complacent FAA all contributed to this. But the training of US carriers ensured it”a crash didn’t happen here.
surzur
Ken Pritchard 0
The Atlantic article was a rushed piece that did not meet the usual high standard of this publication. It was all personal experience, anecdotes, and a good deal of jingoism. It also omitted the fact that Boeing won't let anyone in the cockpit of its planes who is not properly trained. Well maybe they cut corners there too. The article would have been more credible with some data to back up the claim. By the way, a good number of US pilots in sims crashed the plane. Go figure!
boughbw
boughbw 0
The Atlantic literally provided every relevant pilot report.
manarii
Dr Stephen Vadas 2
You are a bit naive.
altawood
altawood 6
Everyone has a perspective. I flew the 737 series for 20 years, trained pilots in the Sim and was a post maintenance test pilot. The abnormal procedure was essentially the same for the last 20 years and no pilot I trained would have failed to follow it.
wiregold
wiregold 3
Did not all previous 737 disengage the auto when the yoke was pulled except the MAX8?
altawood
altawood 1
Agree. Boeing challenged the flight crew, but it was the Pilots failure to follow abnormal procedures that caused the loss of life.
TWA55
TWA55 2
If there is one thing that folks should remember, don't design things for simulator training, no one needs a challenge during an emergency in the real thing. You design for simplicity. This is to say, engineers may design the things, but they don't fly them. Pencil pushers in their CEO capacity w/out real on the ground experience (or air) should be the last anyone should trust. People in this business know exactly what the article is speaking to, and this does not only apply to the plane but everything else around it.
Procedures are fine but not everyone is a robot, human factors need to be considered with those procedures and tested for the for the worse case. In a dog fight it better be simple, not being concerned with which screen to pull up to get yourself out of a pickle. Time is everything and that should be at the top of the list.
wiregold
wiregold 2
"challenged the flight crew" ... This ain't a video game.

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