FAA investigating after plane emergency ignored by ATC

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And the controllers may get some flack, but it's hard to second guess them, either.

I agree with you ATC should've looked for flight numbers ending in 12, but as for sending the trucks anyway, remember DIA is huge, where do you send the trucks? They were looking for a flight that didn't exist

Spot on, MACGSO. It is entirely too easy to do a drive-by and of course, there would be no way to find that source unless someone came forward as a witness and even that would be hearsay. This is somewhat similar to those incidents where lasers are directed at aircraft at night--hard to trace the source.

I don't read that as a valid excuse here. Even the author said it was a rare and unusual circumstance that a mischif call was intercepted by the towers. Weather and visability in snow and blowing snow must have been a factor although no RVR was published nor the traffic density mentioned. In the time the controller took to talk to others, he could have called out emergency equipment. I'm not sure yet how he missed the runway evacuation on radar and visually. And then he let another 5 min. pass.

Where did the pilot ever say United? The call sign for ASQ5912 would be ExpressJet had he used it. As far as I can tell, the controller just made up the United part.

The name says it all Trash, you have no idea like I said what is needed inside at that point and since there was a fire in the cockpit and at the least smoke its not like your damn car, pull over and get out. They had a plane full of people to worry about too, you could have been on it. Now lets see how well you do trying to shut systems down make radio calls configure the plane for landing and on and on there isnt one switch to shut off the propper system there are many and lots to do in a short time. They should have rolled fire and then pointed them that way they were in the trucks out of the garage ready to go not sitting inside drinking coffee waiting for the call.

Atta boy, Cary. finally someone agrees with me. Tower didn't pursue the distress call aggressively. You don't brush off an emergency, smoke in the cockpit call even if you think it's a fake. You try and find out who it is. ATC might track these ExpressJet flights as United. This always causes confusion. But for crying out loud, the controller had cleared 5912 to land!!!! Did he forget that fast? Then he tells 5912 to spend minimum time on the runway. I've spent time in the tower and know several controllers. If you stop on the runway, tower will immediately say something and put the binoculars on you. Pilots know to never stop or do a 180 unless approved. Obviously, 5912 thought they were an emergency aircraft and could deviate from the FAR's if necessary. I know they were thinking where are the crash trucks?

Exactly Peter. There is plenty of blame to spread around here. Pilots need to use their full callsign. Stop the shortcutting. It becomes a habit that will bite you at times like this. The controller could have said "aircraft with the emergency, say your callsign." That would have cleared it up. The guys at the firehouse are usually looking for an excuse to roll, so when in doubt, hit the big red button.

An excellent comment. " United (Express)5912 MAY DAY MAY DAY MAY DAY. United (Express) 5912 Roll the equipment - cabin fire 5912" This is no time to expect the controllers to ask 20 question while wondering if they should scatter 20 aircraft in the air. If this were another hoax, would they not be pilloried?

MAY DAY has far more emotional impact than "Emergency!" Let ATC use "Emergency." Those in the air, "MAY DAY", or not quite, "PAN PAN PAN!"


The pilot on the mike should be kicked down the runway, and should reconsider his ability to fly emergencies without panic.

Concur.

A simple statement by the controller would have cleared the air. " aircraft declaring an emergency say your call sign." The pilot was obviously distressed, and could have used a little help from ATC

Denver International Airport.

Just hire this controller he don't need no fancy equipment to know whats BS or not.

Jim, you've got a good question. As an amateur radio operator (and pilot), I can say that illegal/harmful transmissions are commonplace on many radio bands. The FCC have less than 2,000 employees, with a rather tiny number of them working in their enforcement bureau. After reading enforcement action letters for a long time, it appears to me that they mostly concentrate on going after only the squeakiest of the squeaky wheels. They love the lowest, fattest and juiciest of the low-hanging "monetary forfeitures" (fines). I'm not saying the FCC doesn't care about these little rogue operators with their hand-held radios, but they generally won't act unless the local law enforcement does the legwork in finding these guys.

There is a community of us amateur operators that are active "fox hunters" that have experience in locating certain operators through the use of old-fashioned triangulation. They are occasionally called upon to locate continual or habitual interference, whether for rogue operators, interference-causing devices (like power transformers), or search-and-rescue operations. Obviously it's easier to find stationary transmitters, but the problem lies in that these bad guys with radios don't often sit still. The FCC does have their own DF equipment, but their concerted efforts are more towards offenders that cause widespread public and/or commercial harm.

Easier said than done. :-)

Well of course it's not. It's KDEN/DEN. But most people (including the media in the Denver area, refer to it as DIA.

I can tell you with smoke in the cockpit visability from 5912 was limited. According to the news report it was snowing. I did not hear an RVR.

Sometimes, not all runways are visible. They do have ASDE-X (surface detection radar) and tower display workstations (these display radar approach controller scopes), however, so that they are aware of the location of all aircraft.

There is a statement at the end of the TV report about how snowy it was that morning. So the snow probably made visual ID difficult, if not impossible.

Kevin, are you a commercial pilot or controller? If not, then you are out of your league posting like an expert. After an Air Force career and 14 years as a Part 121 Captain, I am a pilot. Please listen to the tape. The crew did not "declare an emergency" or squawk 7700--error on their part. However, they did say smoke in the cockpit and roll the trucks and said 5912. The controller assumed it was not real. Also, there is lots of confusion on how ATC tracks call signs. This was an ExpressJet call sign but in the tower it may have been UA 5912 because they fly as a code share of United. Way too much time elapses without any talk from the tower. http://www.9news.com/news/article/261127/339/Controller-during-emergency-landing-Thats-BS

Absolutely. Gotta keep your cool. If you don't, nobody will. Get it on the frequency clearly and if you aren't too busy, squawk, but as close in and as busy as they were, the radio should be your primary concern.

Kevin, the Captain and First Officer each fly every other leg of a trip. We don't know who was flying this approach and landing. I will assume the Captain took control if he/she wasn't already. In a long time emergency, the Captain should allow the FO to "fly" while he/she manages all aspects of the emergency. It's important that there is always a flying pilot who does nothing but fly the airplane. It is pretty standard that the Captain take control for the landing.

Doesn't matter. At that point in the flight with smoke filling the cockpit/cabin his job is to fly the plane and get it on the ground not be playing around with the box.

Thats what the problem was Lacey smoke inside thats why he declared and they should have started the equipment then and pointed it later they would have just been outside by the time he figured out where to send them.

Too much to do on a short final in an RJ. My first instinct would not be to change channels on the transponder when I have one hand on the yoke and one on the thrust levers within 60 or so seconds of transition. I'm mor in mind of my cabin crew and what they have to do to get the airplane stopped and the slides deployed. As the pilot, I made the call for emergency trucks and expect the see them..

What do you guys want? Unless you were the crew and had maybe a minute to landing, you just don't know. When you declare an emergency, ATC starts asking lots of questions. In this case, they didn't. I said it before, FLY THE AIRPLANE FIRST--TALK LATER. This is what they did. These pilots were busy!! Great job. ATC blew it.

What does soup have to do with this? Did I miss something?

Yes, errors on both sides. Mark's quote--"But in my mind if Atc does not answer an aircraft call with that same call sign (your call sign) then get a clue, he is not communicating with you!" I hope I would have found a second to say "did you copy, Denver?"

in an emergency case, the pilot is responsible for the safety of the flight. so whether his transmission made it through or not, his first priority was to land the plane, not make sure ATC was understanding correctly

Since the FAA operates Denver Tower and sets rules and regulations for pilots and controllers, it's impossible to make that conclusion right now.